Why do we Pay for XBOX LIVE, AND ARE OK WITH IT

Alan_1994 wrote:

Jamin wrote:Microsoft basically holds part of your games for ransom so that you have to purchase XBL. If you dont pay Microsoft for Live, all your games that have multiplayer are useless. They literally chop your game in half and hold it over your head. That shit pisses me off. I shouldn't have to pay Microsoft to connect to the DEVELOPERS SERVERS so that I can play online. Its shit.

I don't believe multiplayer is half the value of a game. The only one that truely fits in the arguement are MMOs, which can only be played online. The scope of that arguement is also significantly decreased when you think about just how many titles you play online multiplayer on. I mean if you just play one online game then yea it is pretty shit, but if you play multiple then is it really such a big deal?

Though I agree to an extent. I don't mind paying for Live, since there are alot of features I like about it, but there are also alot of features that I don't really even use. They need to give X360 users more options on their subscriptions. There is a huugge gap between the features of Silver and Gold.

Dude, I don't care if the multiplayer of a game is 10% of the value, it doesnt matter. The fact is that Microsoft takes a part of YOUR GAME THAT YOU PURCHASED, and HOLDS IT FOR RANSOM. It doesn't matter how many games you have to play online, the fact of the matter is that you CAN NOT PLAY ANY GAME ONLINE unless you PAY MICROSOFT. Doesn't matter if you have only 1 multiplayer game or 100, its all the same...if not WORSE if you have more games, because that means Microsoft is holding EVEN MORE of your games for ransom.

Its one of the aspects of the Xbox360 that just pisses me off, you either PAY THEM YEARLY, or just settle with portions of all your games just being rendered USELESS. I dont need that fucking Tea Party Chat and other shit just to play my game online. All those features you mentioned don't justify anything, those are just there to give the consumer the feeling that they're getting their money's worth, while they sit in the delusion that they aren't paying Microsoft RENT for their multiplayer portions of their purchased games.

Alan_1994 wrote:

Zillah wrote:

Alan_1994 wrote:

tahmdick wrote:FUCKING HELL ALAN U DONT HAVE A PS3 NOR DOES UR BROTHER UR JUST MAKING UP BULLSHIT EXCUSES
soz for caps

Boy, I can't WAIT to prove you wrong.

Why do you have to wait? Ar eyou far from your brother? When's the last time you've been online?
Yeah, you're lying to me.

Bro, did you read? My brothers PS3 isn't connected online. The only time I can connect online is when he lets me bring it to my room (with the modem) so I can connect it through ethernet. O.o

I thought you just wanted to play with me but after re-reading it, it seems that you are just testing the credibility of my knowledge.

SO WAIT.
You really don't experience online?

Jamin, I think you are being a bit hysterical. Though I respect your opinion.

@ Zillah

I've played on his PS3 IN MY ROOM where I can connect online before. Again, I don't see what your point is. Not of the things I said are blatant lies. I mean obviously you played on PSN, was anything I said about it terribly inaccurate?

Alan_1994 wrote:Jamin, I think you are being a bit hysterical. Though I respect your opinion.

@ Zillah

I've played on his PS3 IN MY ROOM where I can connect online before. Again, I don't see what your point is. Not of the things I said are blatant lies. I mean obviously you played on PSN, was anything I said about it terribly inaccurate?

u dont have any evidence

Alan_1994 wrote:Jamin, I think you are being a bit hysterical. Though I respect your opinion.

I'm not being funny, and having a legitimate complaint about a company raping its users, isn't a sign of hysteria. Its not an opinion, but a fact. Microsoft IS holding portions of your games for ransom, and it also shows the hypocrisy behind Xbox360 users. Remember when it was rumored that EA & Activision would started charging to play their games online, and charging for used games to play online? Gamers of all kinds were up in arms against it, including Xbox360 users...but they've been subjected to it already by Microsoft for years. That is the hypocrisy, its ok for Microsoft to do it, but the people that actually MADE the games and actually OWN THE SERVERS THAT THE GAME'S MULTIPLAYER RUNS ON aren't allowed to put a price on multiplayer. WHAT A JOKE.

You ARE being a little hysterical. What you've been describing is something in the same scale of an MMO game. Where you pay 10-15 bucks a month to play ONE game online. On Xbox Live, you pay 4-5 bucks (off retail, you can get it cheaper else where) a month to have access to ALL multiplayer games. This is a much smaller scale than an MMO game, especially if you own/buy many online multiplayer games. And again, when you pay for Gold...you get more then just online multiplayer. Whether you like it or not it's an online service, which isn't comparable to an MMO online fee.

When Activision said they "might" make a subcription based MMO, X360 users especially started freaking out the most BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY 2 MONTHLY FEES TO PLAY ONE ONLINE MULTIPLAYER TITLE.

You are acting like most X360 users are uninformed about the fact that online multiplayer is free else where. When the average intelligent consumer compares 2 products, they look at price AND quality. If they think XBL's subscription is outrageous then they will go with Sony's platform. If they think XBL is worth it then they will go with MS's platform. From what I've been hearing from you, you don't really even care about any of the features that XBL has over PSN...so it would be rather stupid to "subject" yourself to Microsoft's fee. So in all honesty, there is more of a choice then what you are describing. I assure you, this isn't a tax and that Microsoft isn't raping our wallets.


There is some truth to what you say, no doubt about it. I think multiplayer should be offered in XBL silver and all the other features offered in Gold, because it does seem like more of a game feature rather than a service feature....but you use words like "ransom", "hypocrisy" , and "subjected" to overexaggerate the severeness.

I honestly couldn't careless about your anti-Microsoft views, that's why I just added the whole "respect your opinion" garbage so that way I don't have to write this stupidly long essay explaining to you WHY I THINK IT'S ALRIGHT TO PAY FOR THE FUCKING SERVICE.

jesus christ calm the fuck down alan it's just video games and everyone knows xbox isnt very good lol

Alan_1994 wrote:

Spoiler:

Please stop using words in which you dont know HOW to use them. You cant be a LITTLE hysterical. Being hysterical means exhibiting massive hysteria, causing uncontrollable laughter, and/or being so uncontrollably emotional which leads to irrationality. That is not the case here, and "a little hysterical" is an oxymoron. Why are you bringing up MMOs monthly fee? You're showing how ignorant you are of the differences between an MMO and other forms of online multiplayer. The reason why some MMOs have 10-15 dollar monthly fees is because:

Spoiler:

Did you see WTF you said? "you pay 4-5 bucks (off retail, you can get it cheaper else where) a month to have access to ALL multiplayer games." You're owning YOURSELF. You have to PAY to access the multiplayer on all the games...YOU ALREADY PURCHASED!! While an MMO's cost is justified, ending the subscription ONLY ends that game's multiplayer. But if you don't pay Microsoft, ALL of your games that have multiplayer are having portions of the content, that YOU PAID FOR, rendered useless.

I'm not talking about the Activision MMO rumor, and you know that, because I made myself pretty clear as to what I was referring too: "it was rumored that EA & Activision would started charging to play their games online, and charging for used games to play online"

Many Xbox360 gamers actually DONT know that online multiplayer is free on other platforms. For goodness sake, I've heard people say "I dont know what PS3's LIVE (yes he said Live) is, but Xbox's is obviously better." Hell, I didn't even know the PS3 had free online until I purchased one in 2008. The average consumer ISN'T intelligent. The average consumer finds something to their fancy and buys it, like I did with the Xbox360 in 2005. In truth, Microsoft doesn't even need to have such a fee, for most of the features on XBL are ran ON the Xbox360 itself, on partner's servers (netflix, espn, twitter, etc), and are merely integrated features that the developers are REQUIRED to put in. So you're paying Microsoft for features that they don't even have to run themselves.

Those words are perfect, do you want me to sugar coat it? Not allowing you to utilize the full capacity of your games unless you pay them, is a RANSOM (to pay a stipulated price and so obtain the release of prisoners, property, etc). Xbox360 owners complaining about EA and Activision rumors of charging to play online, while they've been paying Microsoft all this time, is HYPOCRISY ("saying one thing but doing another"), and I shouldn't have to explain "subjected". If you don't like my "saucy" vocabulary, use a thesaurus for nicey nice nicer words.

I'm not Anti-Microsoft, to think so is incredibly stupid and fanboyish, it is also common in a debate to try to deface the opponent with such claims of "hysteria" when one has lost both legs in the discussion. I merely loathe Microsoft's business practices when it comes to gaming. IN TRUTH, they are pretty damn shitty.

Hell, I didn't know the PS3 had free online until I was interested in buying one and started doing the research (early 2009).

To be honest, I don't like paying for online, but it's not a ton of money. While I don't like the principle of it (especially since the dashboard is plastered with ads), I still do it anyway because I'm a tool.

paying for online is lame

Wow BBC, you just destroyed this entire Argument!

You are right, I used "hysterical" in the wrong way. No need to insult me over it. English is my second language, with Lebanese Arabic being my first.

You are just looking at the subscription in the worst and most negative way possible.

Did you see WTF you said? "you pay 4-5 bucks (off retail, you can get it cheaper else where) a month to have access to ALL multiplayer games." You're owning YOURSELF. You have to PAY to access the multiplayer on all the games...YOU ALREADY PURCHASED!! While an MMO's cost is justified, ending the subscription ONLY ends that game's multiplayer. But if you don't pay Microsoft, ALL of your games that have multiplayer are having portions of the content, that YOU PAID FOR, rendered useless.

Dude, wtf....If I remember quite clearly, atleast for console MMOs, you pay full price (or ATLEAST 40 bucks) for the game at the store and you still have to pay 10-15 dollars a month to play it online. Then you tried justifying it by saying how the Developers add features and update it. What you are saying is the game is generally better in value than a separate multiplayer game without a subscription. That's similar to what I've been argueing about XBL as a service. Microsoft constantly updates and adds features to make it the best service while compared to the other free alternatives.

Unless they have been living under a rock all this time, they have probably seen one of the PS3's "IT CAN DO EVERYTHING" ads. They advertise quite alot about the PS3's Blu-ray and free online multiplayer. I can't possibly imagine that the majority of Xbox Live aren't atleast aware of the fact that you can play online multiplayer elsewhere.

You calling me ignorant is also pretty insulting. Your f*cking problem is that when you debate you are ALWAYS being on the offensive. It's rediculous and it adds to the fact that I think you are bitching and moaning more than you need to.

I F*CKING AGREED WITH YOU that multiplayer is not and should not be service feature. I was simply argueing that the pros of XBL outweighs the cons and that the service is worth paying for for some people. You are overexaggerating the scope of the issue. That's what I have a problem with.

I'm done with this topic. I'm sorry if I came off as being rude or ignorant.

Alan_1994 wrote:You are right, I used "hysterical" in the wrong way. No need to insult me over it. English is my second language, with Lebanese Arabic being my first.

Spoiler:

You are just looking at the subscription in the worst and most negative way possible.

Spoiler:

Dude, wtf....If I remember quite clearly, atleast for console MMOs, you pay full price (or ATLEAST 40 bucks) for the game at the store and you still have to pay 10-15 dollars a month to play it online. Then you tried justifying it by saying how the Developers add features and update it. What you are saying is the game is generally better in value than a separate multiplayer game without a subscription. That's similar to what I've been argueing about XBL as a service. Microsoft constantly updates and adds features to make it the best service while compared to the other free alternatives.

Spoiler:

Unless they have been living under a rock all this time, they have probably seen one of the PS3's "IT CAN DO EVERYTHING" ads. They advertise quite alot about the PS3's Blu-ray and free online multiplayer. I can't possibly imagine that the majority of Xbox Live aren't atleast aware of the fact that you can play online multiplayer elsewhere.

Spoiler:

You calling me ignorant is also pretty insulting. Your f*cking problem is that when you debate you are ALWAYS being on the offensive. It's rediculous and it adds to the fact that I think you are bitching and moaning more than you need to.

Spoiler:

I F*CKING AGREED WITH YOU that multiplayer is not and should not be service feature. I was simply argueing that the pros of XBL outweighs the cons and that the service is worth paying for for some people. You are overexaggerating the scope of the issue. That's what I have a problem with.

Spoiler:

I'm done with this topic. I'm sorry if I came off as being rude or ignorant.

Spoiler:

Don't be angry or upset with me, Alan. You're merely experiencing a debate.

-Saying I'm "lacking knowledge" is the next best thing to saying I'm an idiot. Reading through your replies certainly felt like you were insulting my intelligence, especially the last "Spoiler".. Also, when you said X360 gamers were hypocrites, I could only imagine that it was in some way directed at me.

-You ignore the fact that Xbox Live provides many features over PSN. I said I agreed that multiplayer should be free regardless of how many features XBL offers over it's competition, but I think the features are still worth paying 4-5 bucks a month for. That right there is called an opinion. Almost everything that people debate about in the console wars is about opinions. You don't think the features of the service is relevant. You said it yourself, all you care about is multiplayer access. I'm open minded to the fact that people feel differently about Live. Reading through your replies, it felt like you were being incredibly one-sided.

-I think it is quite relevant the fact that some MMOs are retail games that are bought. I assumed you meant ALL MMOs correct?

- Damn, YOU ALMOST OWNED ME. You are forgetting one thing. You WERE exagerating. The very first (or second?) comment was about how Microsoft is "holding half the game over your head". I simply pointed out that I think most games' multiplayer isn't anywhere near half the value unless you are talking about games like MAG or even Call of Duty.

You definantely have a way with words. You are ten times the debator I will ever be. Which is why it pisses me off that you feel the need to make fun of my intelligence when you don't actually have to.